Draft 4.1 Comments

[mas]

Completed first read of 4.1 draft and have several comments (see attached). Many may be irrelevent but wnated to pass them on. Don't get me wrong, believe the draft is a very good start.

Attachments:

[andrea sfiligoi]

The following questions and observations result from preliminary read of the draft playtest rules:
1.Sample character profile on pg. 2 (Arachnoid) lists Danger Sense, Entangle, and Distract among the character’s special rules. These are not listed in the Special Rules section that starts on pg. 13.

I know some things are missing- will be in next draft


2.On pg. 3, under The Point System, would suggest providing some sample point budgets based on game size or duration.

I have no idea at the moment. I play most of my games ignoring points and using the comic books as balance. I plan to reverse engineer this as players tell me "look with X points I cannot create the U-men and run them as a team". The point system was NEVER tested so it may be off .


3.Might add an explanation to The Point System section as to the rationale for dividing the total cost of the character’s Special Rules by his Quality. I assume it is implies that a higher Q value means a better chance to use a Special Rule hence a higher cost for the character. I only mention this since it differs from the way other Song of… games compute cost (unless I have missed an update somewhere).

I want people to make calcs with paper and pen without using a computer, if possible. Yes the reason is what you think-- a Q4 charcater will use a power less times than a Q3 character. If it works it's a very simple way to calculate values.


4.The Design Philosophy section on pg. 4 seems out of place. Would suggest placement up front in the Introduction section.

They will make more sense with the layout. I plan to put the fluffy stuff in callout boxes in various sections so people don't skip it. Nobody reads introductions :-)



5.The gaining Fate points example on pg.5 seems to contradict the paragraph rules that state that winning team increased its Fate Point total by difference it won by. Example states winning team scores 8 and losing team scores 3. Difference should be 8-3= +5 Fate Points to winner not 23-13 = 10.
yes the example is wrong

6.Combat Mechanics on pg.6 indicates this section will be re-written. Suggest that this cover the basic mechanics of both Hand-to-Hand and Ranged combat. Not sure what the “Hand-to-Hand Combat” heading between Area Effects and Power Contest implies.

HTH is basically the same as all song games, but modifiers and effects are very different


7.Power Contest on pg. 6 indicates use of “multiple dice” mechanic with two characters of different categories. Why this restriction? Why not use it for all contests? Also is the max from this +1 to the combat (like the +1 action for initiative) regardless of number of 6s rolled?
Because it is a VERY important step up in power and chances to win a contest. Rolling extra dice is for those cases when a heavyweight hits a lower-class character. You simply roll one more die per difference class and use the best result. Within the same class, it's just a die+power level C rolloff.



8.Might have missed it, but did not see what causes the “Exhausted”, or “Transfixed” effects described on pg.8.
magic and psi, some to be added


9.Suggest that Prone on pg. 8 be relabeled “Knockdown/Prone” to better fit the Knockdown result listed in the Damage Table on pg.7
ok

10.Paragraph 2 under Reactions on pg.9 talks about Superspeed use in reactions. Suggest moving the section labeled “Supper Speed and Reactions” currently on pg. 10 here. This will keep it from breaking up the paragraphs talking about the types of reaction: Ranged Defense, Body Block, and Dodging.
ok makes sense

11.General comment on Special Rules section that starts on pg. 13. Suggest listing rules in alphabetical order.
yep, the problem of writing in two languages at the same time is that alphabetical listings don't match... also, some abilities have been renamed and not rearranged

12.Question on Stunts as described on pg. 13. Looks like they are bought for additional points added to the associated power/special rule. Some of the listed stunts do not list a cost while some do.
Because I didn't come up with a cost yet - to be tested

Not all powers have stunts.
I'll run out of space if I list all, there is a paragraph about inventing new ones

Question is whether there is a limit on number of stunts a character can start with or is it simply a limit of how much they have to spend?
No limit, only the points

Second, would suggest a short paragraph discussing the ability of players to work up additional stunts to help them better visualize their character’s abilities or closer emulate their favorite comic book hero/villain.

Yes it is planned, but I have to write some examples

13.Observations on areas covered by other superhero miniatures games that are missing here: details on use of Super Origin (Human, Alien, Robot, etc.), Henchmen Groups, Weapons, and Vehicles.
Henchmen groups will use the Mook rule (normals + morale roll in certain situations). Weapons and vehicles are simply powers bought with the necessary limitations. I find vehicles highly unplayable unless you have a very large table


14.Obviously you could add to the list of Special Rules by sealing for other books in the Song of… line. Rules that immediately come to mind include the following: Acrobat, Artificial, Burrowing, Humanoid, Mental Shield, Mind Block, Telekinetic Shield, Telepath Scream. Much more could be added if you begin to delve into the area of enhanced, but non-super characters such as Nick Fury and those secret organizations of elite, high-skill operatives so common to the comic book genre.

Sure but in this game all will be bought using the same point system. You pay for the effects not the weapons' names so an assault rifle is bought as a ranged attack with the limitation it can be disarmed/destroyed and has limited ammo.

The book's main problem is space. I can't list everything in 48 pages so I will try to explain how I stat up things so players can do the same. Origins of powers is often irrelevant unless it gives special abilities to the character, e.g. artificial.

[mas]

Appreciate the quick reply to all my questions. Your answers have given me a much better feel for your design philosophy. Have to agree that keeping the character stating process more open to individual player interpretation provides more flexibility to build the type of character each player envisions.

We will continue to explore the playtest rules and post what we fine. Also working up a couple of super teams for posting.

[Paul T]

3.Might add an explanation to The Point System section as to the rationale for dividing the total cost of the character’s Special Rules by his Quality. I assume it is implies that a higher Q value means a better chance to use a Special Rule hence a higher cost for the character. I only mention this since it differs from the way other Song of… games compute cost (unless I have missed an update somewhere).

A little off topic (perdonami, grazi) but I would like to see a similar system used in SBH and the point system used for magic spells, armor, etc. with building characters. I know you are in process of editing it, so these changes may already be the works.

[andrea sfiligoi]

Sorry I am not going to change the way points work in SBH -- 99% of people are happy with the builders.

Yes I will add an explanation, the rationale is what you imagined, better Q models use powers more often so they pay more points. This is still experimental but at least on paper it makes sense. Unfortunately I generally do not use points in my games so here's where playtesters are invaluable.