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Post by slagathor on Jul 8, 2010 17:06:08 GMT 1
I have a question regarding concentrated shooting: Is it possible for a group of model that has been given the concentrated shooting order to use actions for movement? Concentrated Shooting states that it takes one action point to perform, but it doesn't seem to forbid them from doing other things. So is it possible if you roll 2 or 3 actions for the group to let it make one or two moves (staying in base contact) and then make a concentrated attack, or do they have to stand still to do it?
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Post by covultures on Jul 8, 2010 21:45:10 GMT 1
wait a tic....
to move would they have to be in base contact?
the rules for C.S. say that the models do not need to be in btb.
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Post by slagathor on Jul 8, 2010 22:02:48 GMT 1
Hmm...I thought a group always had to be base to base althought I admit it doesn't actually say that in the rules for CS.
On a somewhat related note: Can a leader give more than one order during it's activation?
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Post by richjones on Jul 9, 2010 0:31:11 GMT 1
Think the terms are being mixed up here maybe ... concentrated shooting is a special group order given by the leader ... up to 5 figs within his command range may then add to the concentrated fire. They do not have to be in base to base contact.
To move as a group in SOBH they must be in base to base.
In SOBH the leader can only give one order as it has to be the last thing he does ... you can't go back to him (in other games it isn't the same).
I think Andrea was thinking of the concentrated shooting as being an 'aimed' shot where if they are given a group order and get enough actions they could, move, aim, fire etc.
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Post by covultures on Jul 9, 2010 1:58:25 GMT 1
ah, that clears things up. ive always played concentrated shooting as the only action that can be taken by the activated models.
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Post by slagathor on Jul 9, 2010 1:59:00 GMT 1
Actually now I'm a bit more confused about how CS works. When reading the rules again I realize that it doesn't say that they actually get an activation roll at all, it just says they make a ranged attack. But if they do get an activation roll, wouldn't each model have to complete all actions before moving on to the next, so when can they make the CS shot?
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Post by charger3604bbl on Jul 9, 2010 16:15:11 GMT 1
Models performing Concentrated Shooting need not roll for activation. the Conentrated Shooting will be the only action those models take in that turn.
Chris
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Post by Bearded Bob on Jul 9, 2010 18:42:04 GMT 1
The example given for Concentrated Shooting on SBH pg 16 shows the group do have to make an activation roll ("Assuming the leader makes its activation roll and and the Kobolds theirs...")
I always assumed it was just another type of group action and therefore required the group to be in base to base as opposed to the other special group action Regroup which specifically states that the models don't have to be adjacent. Can't see why you couldn't move the group as well - it looks more like a volley shooting action to saturate the target with arrows that it can't avoid than any sort of careful aiming (especially since claiming the aimed fire bonus is actually prohibited by the concentrated fire rules).
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Post by andrea sfiligoi on Jul 9, 2010 22:48:05 GMT 1
Some confusion here, sorry...
The models in CS need NOT be adjacent to each other, but they MUST be within the leader's command radius.
The leader activates and spends his last action to give the CS order.
Then the models are activated. Roll one single activation roll on one, two or three dice as you see fit, with the worst Q in the group. You MUST spend one resulting action with all models to perform CS, and you roll only ONE combat die, subtracting -1 per extra shooter from the target's C score. Aimed fire CANNOT be used on this roll. CS is the only thing they do this turn (sorry, I was confused in my earlier reply -- we play several games each with its own variant of this rule so I got confused with the Volley fire from SDS).
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Post by andrea sfiligoi on Jul 9, 2010 22:51:15 GMT 1
Slagathor,
no, not in SBH, since when you move activation from the leader to the troops, the leader turn ends, and any actions he has remaining are lost.
We use this rule to keep things simple in SBH, if both players agree you are free to use the rule as it in SDS and other historical games, where leaders can interperse their own actions with the groups and therefore multiple group moves can be used. I'd use it only in large games where there are lots of figures and multiple leaders on both sides.
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Post by andrea sfiligoi on Jul 9, 2010 22:53:19 GMT 1
Chris,
models MUST ALWAYS roll for activation in SBH unless instructed to do otherwise by a special rule or an advance. There is no such thing as a free action in SBH unless clearly labeled as such in the rules.
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Post by slagathor on Jul 10, 2010 13:47:10 GMT 1
Thanks, things are a lot clearer now.
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Post by charger3604bbl on Jul 12, 2010 15:39:15 GMT 1
Chris, models MUST ALWAYS roll for activation in SBH unless instructed to do otherwise by a special rule or an advance. There is no such thing as a free action in SBH unless clearly labeled as such in the rules. I apologize for creating more confusion. I was sure there was another thread somewhere that stated the group simply did the CS without a die roll. I can't seem to find it, and I am obviously incorrect. Chris |
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