Some rules questions

[atomsmasher]

• The Lethal special rule: It reads: "Certain attacks are said to be Lethal. These attacks put the target Out of Action by just beating him in combat. A target that is beaten even by one point by a Lethal
  attack is Out of Action." So what are these certain attacks? In Song of Blades and Heroes, the Lethal special rule is only used against a certain race (like orcs or undead, etc.) that the player determines beforehand. In Flying Lead, is it just against anybody?
  
• Select Fire and Auto Fire special rules: Select Fire reads: "When firing a Select Fire weapon, the player can choose to fire it at one target at the normal Combat modifier OR use it as an Auto Fire weapon. However, if used as an Auto Fire weapon, the range is reduced by one range band size, for example Long range becomes Medium." However, the Auto Fire rule starts with: "Weapons with this rule may make a single attack or fire a burst..." which seems like the same as Select Fire. What is the difference that I'm missing?
  

That's all I can think of now. Thanks!

[richjones]

Hi
Both these things are in a way 'set ups' for the supplements.

LETHAL - normally in FL the lethal ability will be given to weapons not to characters (except for hitman and any specials that genre mechanics may throw up, hatred fits better for most things). Really don't think it should be in the army builder for now in case people abuse it.

Select/Auto - somewhere in the rules it says the the select fire rule is an optional rule. At the moment if your weapon has auto fire one is better off using it as it means one can choose. However in the more detailed supplements some weapons will only have auto or select and then the auto rule will only allow a burst and the select fire will then be a choice between firing controlled over a distance or spraying at shorter ranges.
This allows us to detail weapons better for people who want it. An example would be the MG42 and MG38 - while on the face of it both WWII German LMGs were the same (at the moment you could use them as belt fed LMG or the MG38 as a drum fed) the earlier model had select fire (allowing a single shot) while the later model (to make it more robust and cheaper) only had bursts.

So the MG42 would always need to 'burst' and therefore would have to track to targets within a short ... the MG38 could choose to make a single shot however. The same would go for older SMG as compared to Assualt rifles ... the older SMG will HAVE to burst fire while Assault rifles can choose etc.

So for the moment don't worry about it unless you want to detail weapons up.

[atomsmasher]

Thanks for the answers. Here are some newer questions, based off of our game last night:

• If a figure is within short range of a fragmentation grenade and gets Knocked Down, then does the following C+3 roll against each figure just have to beat the Knocked Down figure's C score to make them Killed in Action? Also, figures that are Knocked Down are attacked at +2, so does the grenade's attack get to add that +2 (making its C roll a +5 in effect)?
  
• If the Leader died due to a Gory Death (this happened last night) then do friendlies within Long have to take two Morale checks, while friendlies outside of Long have to take one?
  
• The Eager rule reads: "The character is eager to please his Leader. He receives a further +1 to Quality rolls if within line of sight
  of the Leader (a roll of a 1 is always a failure)." This means that if the figure is within Long and line of sight of the Leader, they get +2 to Quality rolls and Morale rolls, but does it also mean that if the figure is farther than Long away but still in line of sight, that the Eager rule still gives them +1 to Quality rolls and Morale rolls? It's not clear to us.
  

Thanks again!

[richjones]

Hi
The intention is that the damage roll and the knocked flat happens at the same time as the damage roll - meaning in game terms you roll the damage but the best result that can happen is the figure is knocked down.
Yes they do ... not good to have your leader goried in front of you
Eager gives an extra plus to the Quality of the figure if they can see there leader (we use it for 'owner' as well ... so my Lords 'servant/batman' is eager towards that figure etc) so if they are within a long and eager they get 2 but always fail on a 1 (ie the best you can achieve is equivalent to Q2) forcing players to really use eager for lower quality players in a role play sort of way.

Good luck

[atomsmasher]

Some more questions that came up during Tuesday night's game:

• The Leader special rule gives figures a +1 boost to Quality for both Activation rolls and Morale checks. Is this the same for figures with the Eager rule when within line of sight to the Leader? It's not specific, and we had a question about it.
  
• Does a figure that was put on Overwatch during the previous turn have to activate in any way each turn? Or can it just stay on Overwatch until one of the instances listed in the book occurs?
  
• When does the figure on Overwatch actually shoot if the movement by his opponent that triggers him is a Move and Shoot? Does the figure on Overwatch fire first, does the figure doing his Move and Shoot fire first, or are they to be done simultaneously?
  
• If a figure is Shaken, then beating it by one in a Combat is all that's needed to knock the figure Out of Action. If a figure is wearing Body Armor and is Shaken, do you then have to beat it by two to knock it Out of Action? And if the figure is wearing Body Armor and in Cover, do you have to beat it by three in Combat to knock it Out of Action when it's Shaken?
  

Thanks again!

[richjones]

Eager - it is on top of any leader bonus - it can be assigned to a specific figure so a character is eager to please one of the other characters and they need not be a leader ... we use it this way and it will be used more in supplements. It also means that they get the leader bonus from further away.
Overwatch - the rules states it lasts until the end of the opposing players following turn - so yes it has to be activated every go ... I did this to model 'attention wander' and boredom - people are keen to watch like a hawk when ordered but if nothing happens quick they tend to get distracted, esp when there is a lot going on around them. I have asked a lot of vets about this before deciding. BUT I know a lot of players who leave it on, mainly because they forget about it ...
It is triggered by movement - as it can only be put on in areas with no visible enemy the thing that triggers it HAS to be movement as the figure would have to pop into view to trigger the fire. This was a deliberate mechanic to avoid debates like your enquiry. If the enemy is in sight the figure should be firing at it, or set up the overwatch so it just misses the figure, maybe hoping to catch it when it breaks cover - in this case they would have to take the fire and hope it didn't effect them before the figure moves etc. The mechanic actually solves a lot of the hassles we have come across in years of playing OP fire rules - I wanted something simple but something that modelled it in some 'realistic' way.
Shaken - yep the body armour would still help ... we use body armour as providing hard cover basically - so it gives a concealed effect on the shot and the beaten by one effect on the damage ... it a shaken character was counting as being in hard cover I would presume they wouldn't be a target anyway as shaken includes dropping down and therefore they would be out of sight in hard cover. SO no you only need to beat them by 2 - remember you get +2 for them being shaken (although the prone target -1 makes this a net -1 at anything but short).

Hope that helps
How you finding the rules otherwise?

[atomsmasher]

Our gaming group is really enjoying the rules a lot, but we do still have a few questions. I'm working on a FAQ that we'll be using locally; I can send you a copy if you're interested so you can include it in the next issue of Free Hack if you'd like.

From your last post:

Overwatch - the rules states it lasts until the end of the opposing players following turn - so yes it has to be activated every go ... I did this to model 'attention wander' and boredom - people are keen to watch like a hawk when ordered but if nothing happens quick they tend to get distracted, esp when there is a lot going on around them. I have asked a lot of vets about this before deciding. BUT I know a lot of players who leave it on, mainly because they forget about it ...

From the rules: "The Overwatch marker is removed if the character on Overwatch moves, is caught in a blast, enters hand-to-hand combat, is Knocked Down, killed, or forced to go to ground. It is also removed if non-Auto Fire weapons fire. It is removed at the end of the opponent’s turn if the character has fired Auto Fire weapons. In other cases, the marker stays active until the player chooses otherwise."

This basically states (from what I understand) that if the character on Overwatch: moves, is caught in a blast, enters hand-to-hand combat, is Knocked Down, killed, forced to Go to Ground or fires non-Auto Fire or Auto Fire weapons, then the Overwatch on that character is ended. However, if these things don't happen, then the character on Overwatch keeps the marker active until he or she chooses otherwise.

This doesn't account for if the character on Overwatch gets Shaken or Out of Action. I assume that would also end the Overwatch, but it's not clear and rules lawyers could argue the point, I suppose.

Personally, I believe it should only last for a turn, as well. Not only does it account for attention wander, but it forces that character to have to roll to activate each turn, which could give an opportunity to cause two failures and flip the turn to the opponent. If the character doesn't have to roll for activation each turn, then it's still being functional without the risk of ending the turn.

Thanks again for your responses. We're having a bunch of fun with it, and I know at least a couple more guys here in Oshkosh have purchased it because we've been playing it. I'll probably have more questions later.

[richjones]

Shaken is gone to ground as well ...
As for the sentence ... yes that is how it reads ... I think it got tweaked at the editing stage maybe, we play it has to be reactivated but like I said many don't (I see why now! ).

Yeh send me the FAQ as I was intending on putting an official one up here and on my blog anyway ... cheers

[atomsmasher]

We've got some more questions that have come up and I've been a slacker in getting them posted. Here I go, I'll number them for ease of use.

1. We noticed that the Sniper special rule is listed in the book (on page 34, bottom of the first column) as a 'personality' special rule, but the online squad builder does not list it as such. Which one is right? And if the book is right, can the online builder be fixed?

2. The Leader bonus doesn't help medics, according to the book (page 12, second column, second paragraph), but if the Medic had Eager and was within line of sight to the Leader, would they get the bonus on their Medic roll?

3. Can a single figure have multiple 'personality' special rules?

4.When placing a grenade marker on the board (page 17) can the grenade-throwing player 'identify the exact place to land' as on an enemy figure's base, or does it have to be on a spot of open ground next to a player? The reason being that if the grenade aiming location was on the target's base (as opposed to next to the target) then even if the grenade throw resulted in one failure (causing deviation) and was placed up to one Short distance away, then the target would still be caught within Short distance of the blast, no matter where the targeted player deviated the grenade. If the marker had to be placed next to a figure's base, then the targeted player could still move the grenade landing spot into a place where the targeted figure would not be within Short distance from the blast.

5. One of our players noticed that there were no ways to build smoke grenades in the online builder and there aren't pre-generated ones in the squad builder list. How is that done?

6. On page 34, under 'Building Your Force', it states "If you want to use armored vehicles, the point total should be increased by 150-200 points." However, if the player decides to use soft-skinned vehicles, do they not increase points 150-200 points?

7. Targeting restriction: does a figure still have to target the closest figure if that figure is Fallen, Shaken, or Out of Action? Or can they choose to target a different figure?

8. If there are multiple Fallen targets, do you have to target the closest one if you want to attempt to shoot it?

9. The 'Goes to Ground' paragraph on page 12 makes perfect sense to us, until you reach the last two sentences. Basically it seems this is way it reads: If a figure is out in the open and has to Go to Ground, then he must move in to cover if that cover is within Short distance. If there is no cover within Short distance, then the figure goes Prone. If the figure was already in cover, then he goes Prone. The confusing part starts here: "A figure who has already Gone to Ground will ‘crawl’ a Short move into cover (further away). If this is not possible, he will be Shaken." Does this mean that we should be putting a 'Gone to Ground' marker next to the figure after this happens so we can see if he was Gone to Ground last turn? And how long does the effect last? I was under the impression that the two actual outcomes of receiving the 'Goes to Ground' effect were either that the figure ended up in Cover (if it was available within Short distance) or ended up Prone (if no cover was available). Are these last two sentences trying to say that if a figure is already Prone and receives a 'Goes to Ground' effect then they must either move to cover within Short (different cover if they are already in cover) or else become Shaken? We had a bit of a dust up over the meaning of this one, so help would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

[richjones]

1/ I thought it had been changed in the builder to be honest ... check you are using the latest (if you have downloaded it) or your page is not cached if using online.

2/ Doesn't help their MEDIC roll - it helps with morale and activation. Premiss being that having my CO yelling down my neck doesn't make be more able to 'fix' someone up

3/ Yes they can - in fact to make the 'heroic' they need them - hero and combat fiend being my favourite combo - that is why it is a percentage of the points total that can be 'personality' rather than actual figures count.

4/ The grenade is thrown to a 'spot' not a figure ... you can land them anywhere ... we have used them to destroy things to block paths etc or into the middle of a group of figures etc. The blast areas were kept large on purpose.

5/ You pay for grenade abilty - makes no odd what they are - we work off historical orbats usually where only the squad leader + or specials would have smoke ... used to mark positions more than create obscured bits.

6/ Well the cost of armour is usually quite high where as soft skinned vehicles are typically low - so the cost of soft skinned is supposed to be absorbed into your force squad to be honest. That said most people I know say - take your 600-1000 point squad and add x number of soft vehicles each etc.

7/ Closest immediate threat - so no. Remember you can choose a target in open as opposed to in cover anyway and prone (including shaken etc) are effectively in cover as you get a -1 on shooting them - again that said most people like to 'finish' those shaken figs off while they can

8/ Well as you have to choose closest but can ignore fallen etc then I don't suppose you do If it makes a lot of cheese then have them roll to see if they can ... would be an odd situation to have a lot of shaken figs in the open to choose from ... most shaken in cover will be out of sight.

9/ OK ... you are both correct in bits. If a figure is made to 'go to ground' in the open with no cover within short they will drop prone. If there is cover they go there. If they are in cover already they drop prone. Now dropped prone in cover means they are out of line of sight in most instances and will not be shot at again. HOWEVER if they are in prone in cover (but in LOS) or prone in the open AND get another 'goes to ground' result in the firer's turn they must either crawl to more cover (having found the position of safety they are in ISN'T a good one) or if they can not do this they are so freaked out they become shaken. However if the turn is over you forget about the 'gone to ground' bit for firing.

Hope that helps

[atomsmasher]

Thanks again for the quick reply. Really excellent!

I just checked the builder here at work (I use the online one, not the downloadable one) and it also is showing me the Sniper rule as not being a Personality rule, so I don't think it's cached.

Thanks!

[richjones]

Just checked and it is a personality one:
f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8OTeS5HDCoHbB3XNUokQ2h3RykZ24dF7rOD1zFKi71ubkYIHLdcCBvH7Az_QZ8pClb71SqangUqFJDm0R_u3o7TVQRXAZdnqS7KsYpAS3RNbv58jtNZL/FL-Characters.html

[atomsmasher]

I'm looking at the Squad Builder on the Downloads page of the website. That's the one our group uses here. It still lists Sniper as a non-personality special rule. I would assume that's the builder that most folks use. Also, I just noticed that the website version doesn't have any of the FL page numbers in it for special rules.

I couldn't get the link in your previous message to work.

[richjones]

I use the one on the link from the file section in the yahoo group so something is very strange ...